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	<title>Comments on: A $300 million mistake</title>
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	<link>http://reuvencarlyle36.com/2009/07/21/a-300-million-mistake/</link>
	<description>State Representative from Washington&#039;s 36th Legislative District</description>
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		<title>By: Larry Cebula</title>
		<link>http://reuvencarlyle36.com/2009/07/21/a-300-million-mistake/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Larry Cebula]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reuvencarlyle36.com/?p=472#comment-131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why Olympia? If the State of Washington needs what amounts to a server farm, why build it on expensive land in an earthquake zone when you have the whole eastern part of the state to use instead? Put it in Ritzville and run a wire to Olympia.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why Olympia? If the State of Washington needs what amounts to a server farm, why build it on expensive land in an earthquake zone when you have the whole eastern part of the state to use instead? Put it in Ritzville and run a wire to Olympia.</p>
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		<title>By: The Cloud and the Man &#124; Technology is Dead</title>
		<link>http://reuvencarlyle36.com/2009/07/21/a-300-million-mistake/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Cloud and the Man &#124; Technology is Dead]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reuvencarlyle36.com/?p=472#comment-125</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Washington state, who is rallying against a new state data center project in Olympia, calling it ‘a 300 million dollar mistake’ in defense of lower costs via cloud providers.  That’s a bold move for attacking an entire [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Washington state, who is rallying against a new state data center project in Olympia, calling it ‘a 300 million dollar mistake’ in defense of lower costs via cloud providers.  That’s a bold move for attacking an entire [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DMNews Direct Line &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Data debate goes on - DMNews Blogs</title>
		<link>http://reuvencarlyle36.com/2009/07/21/a-300-million-mistake/#comment-94</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DMNews Direct Line &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Data debate goes on - DMNews Blogs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reuvencarlyle36.com/?p=472#comment-94</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] what do you think &#8212; is a government data center &#8220;A $300 million mistake&#8221; or a sound investment in today&#8217;s world? Related PostsData security debateThis [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] what do you think &#8212; is a government data center &#8220;A $300 million mistake&#8221; or a sound investment in today&#8217;s world? Related PostsData security debateThis [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://reuvencarlyle36.com/2009/07/21/a-300-million-mistake/#comment-80</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 05:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reuvencarlyle36.com/?p=472#comment-80</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cloud computing may be an option, there are others as well.

Why would the state build a data center when the private sector can provide data center hosting as a service to the state? This is what many private sector companies do. It is available now, it works, increases availability, increases security, can address disaster recovery issues, reduces facilities and personnel costs. If the state wants to operate more like a business, then it needs to look at what the private sector is doing, and adopt those practices.

Additionally why not seriously consider moving agencies to open source solutions, for example Google Docs which would provide word processing, spreadsheets and presentations for significantly lower cost than Microsoft. Additionally email, shared calendaring, web sites, blogs and many other services are available.

The legislature needs to require state agencies to use open source solutions, or provide justification as to why open source would not work before purchasing commercial software.

Why is the State Department of Information Services (DIS) brokering telecommunications services to agencies at a marked up price? DIS is acting as a middle man to itself ... this does not make any sense.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cloud computing may be an option, there are others as well.</p>
<p>Why would the state build a data center when the private sector can provide data center hosting as a service to the state? This is what many private sector companies do. It is available now, it works, increases availability, increases security, can address disaster recovery issues, reduces facilities and personnel costs. If the state wants to operate more like a business, then it needs to look at what the private sector is doing, and adopt those practices.</p>
<p>Additionally why not seriously consider moving agencies to open source solutions, for example Google Docs which would provide word processing, spreadsheets and presentations for significantly lower cost than Microsoft. Additionally email, shared calendaring, web sites, blogs and many other services are available.</p>
<p>The legislature needs to require state agencies to use open source solutions, or provide justification as to why open source would not work before purchasing commercial software.</p>
<p>Why is the State Department of Information Services (DIS) brokering telecommunications services to agencies at a marked up price? DIS is acting as a middle man to itself &#8230; this does not make any sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://reuvencarlyle36.com/2009/07/21/a-300-million-mistake/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:42:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reuvencarlyle36.com/?p=472#comment-77</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Since this is state government, it would be very safe to assume that there are more things in play here than just construction interests.  When you consider the fact that most government organizations run legacy applications (i.e. mainframe and as/400 based applications) that are absolutely critical to operations, it would not be a viable option to use the cloud.  To the best of my knowledge no current cloud provider offers anything other than unix based OS&#039;s and some offer Windows based OS&#039;s.

The knee jerk reaction to this would be &quot;rewrite the applications!&quot; that wouldn&#039;t be the most prudent thing either, as that takes a lot of time, and depending on how many applications could cost well over the $300MM earmarked for a datacenter.   Rewrites open you up to endless headaches from contracting organizations that don&#039;t fully understand what it is they&#039;re rewriting.  Introducing bugs, downtime, blame games and subsequently causing heads to roll.

I might also add that I have not yet heard of any major corporation wholesale (or even piecemeal for that matter) moving their entire operations to the cloud.  It&#039;s just not something that is going to happen any time soon, no one wants to trust the backbone of their business to anyone whose sole purpose is not (i.e. dedicated staff) is to ensure that the interests of their business are protected.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since this is state government, it would be very safe to assume that there are more things in play here than just construction interests.  When you consider the fact that most government organizations run legacy applications (i.e. mainframe and as/400 based applications) that are absolutely critical to operations, it would not be a viable option to use the cloud.  To the best of my knowledge no current cloud provider offers anything other than unix based OS&#8217;s and some offer Windows based OS&#8217;s.</p>
<p>The knee jerk reaction to this would be &#8220;rewrite the applications!&#8221; that wouldn&#8217;t be the most prudent thing either, as that takes a lot of time, and depending on how many applications could cost well over the $300MM earmarked for a datacenter.   Rewrites open you up to endless headaches from contracting organizations that don&#8217;t fully understand what it is they&#8217;re rewriting.  Introducing bugs, downtime, blame games and subsequently causing heads to roll.</p>
<p>I might also add that I have not yet heard of any major corporation wholesale (or even piecemeal for that matter) moving their entire operations to the cloud.  It&#8217;s just not something that is going to happen any time soon, no one wants to trust the backbone of their business to anyone whose sole purpose is not (i.e. dedicated staff) is to ensure that the interests of their business are protected.</p>
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		<title>By: Washington state Rep. says no to data center, suggests Amazon S3 &#124; Technology you can trust here...</title>
		<link>http://reuvencarlyle36.com/2009/07/21/a-300-million-mistake/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Washington state Rep. says no to data center, suggests Amazon S3 &#124; Technology you can trust here...]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reuvencarlyle36.com/?p=472#comment-76</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the proposal a &#8220;$300 Million dollar mistake&#8220;, Rep. Reuven Carlyle suggests that the state, &#8220;Utilize cloud services from commercial [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the proposal a &#8220;$300 Million dollar mistake&#8220;, Rep. Reuven Carlyle suggests that the state, &#8220;Utilize cloud services from commercial [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Washington state Rep. says no to data center, suggests Amazon S3 &#124; Open Source Blog</title>
		<link>http://reuvencarlyle36.com/2009/07/21/a-300-million-mistake/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Washington state Rep. says no to data center, suggests Amazon S3 &#124; Open Source Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reuvencarlyle36.com/?p=472#comment-75</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the proposal a &#8220;$300 Million dollar mistake&#8220;, Rep. Reuven Carlyle suggests that the state, &#8220;Utilize cloud services from commercial [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the proposal a &#8220;$300 Million dollar mistake&#8220;, Rep. Reuven Carlyle suggests that the state, &#8220;Utilize cloud services from commercial [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Reuven</title>
		<link>http://reuvencarlyle36.com/2009/07/21/a-300-million-mistake/#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reuven]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 03:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reuvencarlyle36.com/?p=472#comment-72</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your analysis is strong, of course, and I reiterate my point that the cloud isn&#039;t the automatic answer.  Yet the question, analysis, study and review is essential.  The agency&#039;s business plan covered the entire scope of every aspect of the functionality in one and a half pages.  It&#039;s just not robust enough on these tough issues. 

I can&#039;t get a handle on how actively the state has embraced true virtualization models and systems, so that&#039;s something I need to learn from DIS more thoroughly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your analysis is strong, of course, and I reiterate my point that the cloud isn&#8217;t the automatic answer.  Yet the question, analysis, study and review is essential.  The agency&#8217;s business plan covered the entire scope of every aspect of the functionality in one and a half pages.  It&#8217;s just not robust enough on these tough issues. </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t get a handle on how actively the state has embraced true virtualization models and systems, so that&#8217;s something I need to learn from DIS more thoroughly.</p>
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		<title>By: Burton Strauss</title>
		<link>http://reuvencarlyle36.com/2009/07/21/a-300-million-mistake/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Burton Strauss]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 03:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reuvencarlyle36.com/?p=472#comment-71</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This might be a good move, or it might not.

Does the cloud have some potential benefits?  Sure.  But like every miracle touted IT technology, it&#039;s not going to solve every problem and slice bread more cleanly. Right now - today - it&#039;s still immature, a bunch of vendor promisses and pretty marketing PowerPoints about what will &quot;be in the next release, real soon now&quot;.  So while there are some benefits, you are not going to gain every bit of the hype in cold $ savings - and you take on a lot of risk.

It&#039;s worth asking the question - but it is not a step to be taken lightly - beyond the same security risks you have with any data center, there are new risks and a lot of unknowns. 

A substantial part of the state infrastructure that I&#039;m aware of is moving to virtualized machines.  &quot;Moving to the cloud&quot; is often seen as equivalent, but it&#039;s not.  These are two interrelated but different steps.

Purely in the virtualization world, the tools and technologies are immature.  If it&#039;s all in-house, you can manage it, but you lose a certain level of information about the innards of the network.  That&#039;s a risk tradeoff that has proven acceptable because of the benefits of virtualization.

For example - most data centers deploy a set of tools, services and equipment to protect and monitor traffic.  These tools - Intrusion Protection Services (IPS), Firewalls, etc. - are crtical to the security of the data center.  The virtual network traffic is invisible to these tools.  There are work-arounds (what you do is create multiple networks, run the traffic OUT of the virtual world into a physical switch you can connect your monitoring tools to and then run it back into the virtual world).   

BUT:

Taking the next step and moving those processes to a public utility model (&quot;moving to the cloud&quot;) exposes you to these risks, doesn&#039;t allow you to deploy the work-arounds and adds even MORE risk.  Why?  Because there are now other peoples processes running along side yours - and you can&#039;t see what they are doing. 

You would not just let anybody walk into the data center and plug their laptop into the network. You wouldn&#039;t let the execute systems administration tasks on your computers.

With a cloud model, you can&#039;t prevent it...

So you contractually require all your processes run on an isolated set of machines, on a separate network.  And then all you&#039;ve really done is outsource the ownership and maintenance of the data center.

Does that offer savings, scalability and benefits ... depends on a lot of things.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This might be a good move, or it might not.</p>
<p>Does the cloud have some potential benefits?  Sure.  But like every miracle touted IT technology, it&#8217;s not going to solve every problem and slice bread more cleanly. Right now &#8211; today &#8211; it&#8217;s still immature, a bunch of vendor promisses and pretty marketing PowerPoints about what will &#8220;be in the next release, real soon now&#8221;.  So while there are some benefits, you are not going to gain every bit of the hype in cold $ savings &#8211; and you take on a lot of risk.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s worth asking the question &#8211; but it is not a step to be taken lightly &#8211; beyond the same security risks you have with any data center, there are new risks and a lot of unknowns. </p>
<p>A substantial part of the state infrastructure that I&#8217;m aware of is moving to virtualized machines.  &#8220;Moving to the cloud&#8221; is often seen as equivalent, but it&#8217;s not.  These are two interrelated but different steps.</p>
<p>Purely in the virtualization world, the tools and technologies are immature.  If it&#8217;s all in-house, you can manage it, but you lose a certain level of information about the innards of the network.  That&#8217;s a risk tradeoff that has proven acceptable because of the benefits of virtualization.</p>
<p>For example &#8211; most data centers deploy a set of tools, services and equipment to protect and monitor traffic.  These tools &#8211; Intrusion Protection Services (IPS), Firewalls, etc. &#8211; are crtical to the security of the data center.  The virtual network traffic is invisible to these tools.  There are work-arounds (what you do is create multiple networks, run the traffic OUT of the virtual world into a physical switch you can connect your monitoring tools to and then run it back into the virtual world).   </p>
<p>BUT:</p>
<p>Taking the next step and moving those processes to a public utility model (&#8220;moving to the cloud&#8221;) exposes you to these risks, doesn&#8217;t allow you to deploy the work-arounds and adds even MORE risk.  Why?  Because there are now other peoples processes running along side yours &#8211; and you can&#8217;t see what they are doing. </p>
<p>You would not just let anybody walk into the data center and plug their laptop into the network. You wouldn&#8217;t let the execute systems administration tasks on your computers.</p>
<p>With a cloud model, you can&#8217;t prevent it&#8230;</p>
<p>So you contractually require all your processes run on an isolated set of machines, on a separate network.  And then all you&#8217;ve really done is outsource the ownership and maintenance of the data center.</p>
<p>Does that offer savings, scalability and benefits &#8230; depends on a lot of things.</p>
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		<title>By: The state&#8217;s new data center: wait just a minute! &#124; Seattle News</title>
		<link>http://reuvencarlyle36.com/2009/07/21/a-300-million-mistake/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The state&#8217;s new data center: wait just a minute! &#124; Seattle News]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reuvencarlyle36.com/?p=472#comment-70</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Rep. Reuven Carlyle, a valuable provocateur and freshman Democrat from Queen Anne, has gone public with his criticism of state plans to build a $300 million new data center in Olympia. In a letter [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Rep. Reuven Carlyle, a valuable provocateur and freshman Democrat from Queen Anne, has gone public with his criticism of state plans to build a $300 million new data center in Olympia. In a letter [...]</p>
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